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23 May 2011

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Frank S

I suspect all these movements you refer to were merely jumping on a bandwagon already underway. The wests has a long tradition of respect for women, for the poor, and for capturing these in laws. Laws capable of ongoing improvement. No need to credit 'feminism' with anything except giving some disturbed people a platform to rant from. In fact, they and such as the trade unions have arguably done more harm than good. For example, it is not at all good for our economy that all these hoops have to be jumped through in order to fire someone.

Sarah AB

It is possible that it is too difficult to fire people in some circumstances - but I agree with the post. Reading The Jungle or The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists is a good reminder of what happens when you just leave such matters to 'the west's ... long tradition of respect for ... the poor'. Some people *would* have been looked after by a benevolent squire type who would have jumped in to perform the role of the welfare state. But if you had a landlord who was only out to make money - then what?

Recusant

I'm not sure we can count The Ragged Trousered Philanphropist as data, rather than a communist's tendentious screed.

Gareth

That the chambermaid can get justice is - in world-historical terms - an amazing thing; and it's unimaginable without the confluence of people and ideas we label feminism. I think the two influential merdes referred to demonstrate it's not happened by default.

Rosie

@FrankS
And who got these bandwagons going in the first place? Did they start moving all by themselves? Whatever the West, or anywhere else thinks of poverty and women, the (even comparatively) rich, privileged and powerful aren’t that keen to give up their wealth, privileges and power, and it usually takes a lot of effort by dedicated people to get them to do so.

There is a habit of thinking that what seems like obviously natural and reasonable - women voting for instance, or blacks having equal rights - must have always seemed so. But the same people who think that would have thought, at the time, that women and blacks were natural inferiors, and that it was an offence against nature and civilisation to oppose that thought.

Without looking for it, this came across my eyes yesterday:-

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/jun/09/charms-eleanor-roosevelt

It’s about Eleanor Roosevelt in the 1930’s and 40s:-

“She could urge him to demand civil rights legislation for blacks, but could not overcome his argument that the Southern states were so vital to the Democratic Party’s political success that it might be disastrous to anger them. Not that a civil rights campaign would have had overwhelming support in the North either, for “the greatest generation” was also a profoundly racist generation with a segregated army and a fresh history of race rioting between factory workers in Northern industrial cities.

Eleanor’s compassion earned her incessant abuse from those who were contented with the uncompassionate side of American culture. The Southern press cudgeled her relentlessly for speaking up for racial equality. “

“Speaking up for racial equality” wouldn’t be a big deal for the President’s wife today, but it was then. Do you think we got here by no-one doing anything and it would have happened like a river running to the sea?

Building Materials

A common story these days. This kind of thing happens all the time. It should'nt matter if you are black or white, going to work to a job you probably don't like is bad enough, let alone that happening.

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  • Rosie Bell

    Some song writing, some verse writing and too much blogging about culture, politics, cycling and gardening.

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